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| 07:54:52 | * Chaitanya Koratamaddi | Good Morning / Evening everyone! |
| 07:57:04 | David Burela | Hi everybody! |
| 07:57:17 | Hector Ojeda | Hi all! |
| 07:57:27 | Mario | Good morning from Costa Rica |
| 07:57:47 | David Burela | Argentina is here too :) |
| 07:57:59 | hoffmannf | Germany up and running ;) |
| 07:58:06 | Adrián Filomeni | Hi all from Cordoba Argentina ! |
| 07:58:12 | KarenT | UK too |
| 07:58:16 | * Joel Kallman | Awesome! Thank you all for joining! |
| 07:58:31 | Hector Ojeda | Hi from Paraguay |
| 07:59:11 | Erick Valdivia | Hi from Arequipa Peru |
| 07:59:27 | Oscar_Obando | Hi from Paraguay too |
| 07:59:34 | Olivia Ding | Hi from China |
| 07:59:47 | Saeed Hassanpour | Hi from Iran |
| 08:00:05 | Brumla | hello from Czech Rep. |
| 08:00:09 | Scott Wesley | G'day from Australia |
| 08:00:29 | Bernhard FW (DE) | and Hi from Germany... |
| 08:01:09 | Saravanan Spance | I am from India |
| 08:01:30 | Davor Maric | Hello from Croatia |
| 08:03:31 | Mr. X | Hello from India |
| 08:05:18 | hong | 中国的朋友 |
| 08:05:43 | Kyle Hu | 欢迎 |
| 08:06:48 | iPhone | 大家好 |
| 08:07:37 | Kyle Hu | Hi friends from China, please use English only here. |
| 08:07:57 | * David Peake | Please remember to ask any of your questions in the chat (here) and I will endeavor to ask them when we get to the “open” Q andA section at the end |
| 08:09:27 | hoffmannf | Can APEX run without Javascript? |
| 08:09:32 | Juergen Schuster | No |
| 08:10:39 | oegidio | Do you know link for customized contents under subscription interactive reports? |
| 08:11:49 | Mario | I've been told by "experts" that apex can't handle a heavy duty ERP. Like for migrating a full ERP. Whats your opinion and experience. |
| 08:12:05 | * David Peake | Please ask questions related to Oracle Forms Modernization … For general questions please ask them on the APEX OTN Forum or on the APEX Slack channel (go to apex.world for details) |
| 08:12:53 | Juergen Schuster | @Mario: Thats nonsense on the contrary, ask yourself if the DB can handle it, then APEX can handle it, because APEX just put a 0.0n seconds on top of the DB to create the UI for it ;-) |
| 08:13:46 | Daxlai | can we migrate forms 10g in apex? |
| 08:14:03 | Sunny Patel | How would you handle Oracle Forms WebUtil functionalities into APEX. PlugIns? I ask as browser interaction with the client machine is such a big no no in terms of security. |
| 08:14:08 | Sk | Can you please explain difference in Oracle forms and Apex architecture and how it can benefit business in terms of cost /efforts saved |
| 08:14:10 | Daxlai | means developed forms in forms10g can migrate in apex? |
| 08:14:35 | Juergen Schuster | @Daxlai: It depends what you mean with "migrate" we will hear today whats the different paths are |
| 08:14:52 | Mario | Whats your recommendation, migration tools from forms to apex or is better to start from scratch? |
| 08:15:00 | oegidio | I want to know more about PWA (Progress Web Application). Thanks. |
| 08:15:01 | * Anthony Rayner | @hoffmanf: Regarding APEX without JS, this is a non-starter, but I’d be happy to discuss in more detail with you by email: anthony.rayner@oracle.com |
| 08:15:02 | * David Peake | @Daxai yes you can redevelop any version of Forms, however, you can not automatically create APEX pages based on Forms pages |
| 08:15:32 | * David Peake | @Mario - Use Create App Wizard to build pages from scratch |
| 08:15:40 | aleksei.escobar | whats your recommendation for migration of oracle reports? |
| 08:15:44 | Juergen Schuster | @Sunny: You can make APEX 100% secure what you can do with Web-Application |
| 08:15:44 | Mario | thank you |
| 08:16:23 | Juergen Schuster | @oegidio: go to apex.world there is a tag for PWA and a great blog post from Vincent |
| 08:16:36 | * Anthony Rayner | @oegidio: https://github.com/vincentmorneau/apex-pwa |
| 08:16:59 | oegidio | great, thanks |
| 08:17:45 | Mario | you see the video blinking or its just me? |
| 08:18:12 | * David Peake | @sk - Please review the APEX Migration Guide for more in depth in the differences between Forms / APEX components https://docs.oracle.com/database/apex-18.1/AEMIG/toc.htm |
| 08:18:55 | Craig Clarke | Hi, what components of Forms cannot be used in Apex.....or can we do everything and more ; ) |
| 08:18:57 | nii.okunor | i want to build SSHR forms using Apex. which approach will you recommend? |
| 08:19:34 | Juergen Schuster | @Craig: You can use / create any Web-Element you have ever seen or is possible in a Browser |
| 08:19:36 | hoffmannf | Why do you suggest a replacement with APEX why not using the strenght of both tools? Like Softbase does. Strong data entry by Forms - display some data UI friendly APEX? |
| 08:19:38 | * David Peake | @aleksie - For reports you can replace many with Interactive Reports or look at some of the external reporting tools such as APEX Office Print |
| 08:19:46 | Kevin Zhang | the cruise company must be Carnival? |
| 08:20:07 | Daxlai | gird is different than multi record block in forms so in case of very heavy data punching oltp system difficult to migrate or implimentation any solution because in apex for every new record add record button press where in oracle forms just go thru down key |
| 08:20:09 | Kevin Zhang | I remembed I bumped into many IT guys from Canival in an APEX event @ Chicago ... he he... |
| 08:20:26 | * David Peake | @hoffmannf - We actually do recommend keeping functionality in Forms when that is the most appropriate |
| 08:20:40 | Sunny Patel | To the experts - would you *recommend* using the Forms Migration Tool in APEX? |
| 08:20:51 | Juergen Schuster | @Daxlai: I would add Keyboard operation with Dynamic Actions |
| 08:21:02 | Daxlai | no while createing new forms from screach |
| 08:21:04 | Daxlai | in apex |
| 08:21:32 | Pete K | @hoffmannf - our users find data entry MUCH easier using APEX over our older forms application, and for visualisation there's no contest. YMMV of course! |
| 08:21:34 | Vivek Ananda | What approaches have been taken on projects to move Oracle Reports ? What different reports tools were used. |
| 08:21:58 | * David Peake | @Sunny — I would but I am biased … It is very good for documenting business logic “hidden” in triggers etc and annotating to ensure you don’t lose required functionality |
| 08:22:26 | Hector Ojeda | Can you automate the forms migration? |
| 08:22:57 | * David Peake | @Vivek - Interactive Reports for online reporting and for pixel perfect printing there are many tools such as APEX Office Print, Jasper Reports, PL / PDF etc |
| 08:23:01 | * Anthony Rayner | @Daxlai: RE: add row with down key on bottom row, that’s a great enhancement request, we will consider this for the next release. |
| 08:23:18 | * David Peake | @Hector — No, You should use the Create App Wizard to create pages from scratch |
| 08:23:35 | Juergen Schuster | @Daxlai: But you can do it today with Dynamic Actions ;-) |
| 08:24:18 | Vivek Ananda | @David is there any reuse of code from the Report file |
| 08:24:41 | Daxlai | currently apex is free of licence but in future it can be charable? but difficult to convince manageent in company to migrate for support. if paid than get support from oracle |
| 08:25:20 | Daxlai | some difficult to understand at current stage dynamic action and validation. can we have any session on it? |
| 08:25:38 | Juergen Schuster | @Daxlai: There is a Blog Post from Joel about that in apex.world and Mike Hichwa told in the last Podcast Minute 7:30 it will be free forever ;-) |
| 08:25:43 | John Snyders | @Daxlai RE add row. grid will auto add rows with tab off last row and also the Insert key will add a row. No need to take hands off keyboard. |
| 08:26:05 | * David Peake | @Vivek - Obviously the SQL can be copied (manually) but you must redefine your pixel perfect layout using your reporting tool of choice. However, I prefer to get users to use online reports (such as Interactive Reports) instead of having to always print out and waste paper |
| 08:26:11 | Sunny Patel | @Daxlai - APEX is a fully supported product by Oracle Support. |
| 08:26:32 | * Anthony Rayner | @John Snyders: Ah there you go, nice! :-) |
| 08:26:47 | * David Peake | @Daxlai - Yes there will be a future APEX Office Hours on Dynamic Actions |
| 08:26:52 | Juergen Schuster | @Daxlai: YES |
| 08:26:54 | hoffmannf | Are your suggestions officially recommended from ORACLE and Forms could run out in 5-10 years? I always thought from SHAY that APEX and FORMS are both fully supported .. and that there is no tool prefered... |
| 08:27:22 | * David Peake | Oracle Forms will continue to be supported for many years to come |
| 08:27:33 | * David Peake | Oracle APEX is also fully supported |
| 08:28:05 | Juergen Schuster | @hoffmannf: Client Server is actually dead today. This is not an opinion. Web has taken over a long time ago. Oracle can’t do anything about it ;-) |
| 08:28:15 | Vivek Ananda | @David I agree, however in my case it is requred for legal and statutory reasons were we need to print. |
| 08:28:48 | hoffmannf | @Juergen Schuster - Forms is 3tier not client server - that was version 6i |
| 08:28:50 | Hector Ojeda | Can I create pages and items using an APEX package (like "wwv_flow_api")? |
| 08:29:11 | mentzel iudith | The most important point to discuss are the aspects that relate to processing logic, like pessimistic vs optimistic locking, the fact that Forms applications strongly rely on stateful database sessions, rather than the GUI related aspects. For really complex Forms applications, a "mechanical" migration will probably not work. |
| 08:29:25 | * Anthony Rayner | @Hector: That’s not supported today. |
| 08:29:37 | Nivetha | in the form level is there a way to change the display only item value to unbold ,for now the display value are in bold |
| 08:30:10 | * David Peake | @mentzel - We discuss some of those issues here: https://docs.oracle.com/database/apex-18.1/AEMIG/understanding-key-differences.htm#AEMIG143 |
| 08:30:58 | Juergen Schuster | @Nivetha: Thats easy |
| 08:32:10 | Sk | How does session state management work in forms compared to apex |
| 08:32:52 | Juergen Schuster | @sk: there is a good Blog Post about that check apex.world and look for Session |
| 08:34:22 | mentzel iudith | It's NOT client-server to web, because Forms works only web deployed already since Forms 10g ! |
| 08:34:23 | Aravindan | How to unbold the display only item value in form level |
| 08:35:17 | hoffmannf | Isn't much more straight forward to make a pure JAVASCRIPT solution out of Forms with Database access than a mix of apex tool and javascript? |
| 08:35:19 | Pete K | @aravindan, search the oracle community forums, it can be done easily with a little CSS on the page |
| 08:35:30 | * David Peake | @mentzel - Oracle Forms is not a “native” web application, instead it can now run in a browser which is different from native HTML based pages |
| 08:35:30 | hoffmannf | Forms offered 3tier already with 6i ... |
| 08:36:28 | Juergen Schuster | @hoffmannf: No writing an JavaScript app you end up with 100.000 lines of complicated JS, in APEX you can end up with 0 lines |
| 08:36:59 | hoffmannf | @David and Apex is not a native PL/SQL tool - more a mix of PL/SQL and JAVASCRIPT |
| 08:37:19 | hoffmannf | ORACLE JET is a pure JAVASCRIPT Tool - why not Modernizing to that? |
| 08:38:04 | Juergen Schuster | @hoffmannf: You don’t care because you are never forced to write a single line of JavaScript. It is PL/SQL based for business logic. JavaScript only if you want to do fancy UI stuff |
| 08:38:20 | KarenT | Is it possible to show a grand total in a pie chart ? |
| 08:38:35 | Aravindan | @pete k Yeah, but I am not sure. It is possible in display only option. |
| 08:38:36 | * David Peake | @hoffmannf: Oracle JET is an option for developers that are highly skilled in JS. Personally I have built 100s of APEX apps and instead of writing JS I use Dynamic Actions. I generally only write SQL and PL/SQL for my apps |
| 08:39:07 | Juergen Schuster | @hoffmannf: JET? You can do that if you are happy to write a 100.000 lines of JavaScript code. Be my guest :-) |
| 08:39:54 | Vivek Ananda | @sk we have used collections to manage the staeful functionality . |
| 08:39:57 | hoffmannf | @Schuster but than you could stay with Forms - Forms allows autocomplete, responsive design, mobile with AURAPLAYER - it is only a question if you use JAVA Beans or more difficuly use PL/SQL but it is possible |
| 08:40:23 | oegidio | I have been replacing forms apps with Apex, since htmldb 1.6 and the most important is change the mind of user, because until now, all things was solve it with this tool. From scratch. |
| 08:41:18 | Juergen Schuster | @hoffmannf: The UI is terrible and can’t be changed in APEX you can do modern Web-UIs with the simplest architecture you can think of. But if you are happy with your Forms App. Keep it, no need to change a running system you are happy with. |
| 08:42:02 | Pete K | @aravindan .t-Form-inputContainer span.display_only { font-weight: normal; } with the caveat that the classes may be different in different versions of apex |
| 08:42:06 | mentzel iudith | I think that it's easier to train a developer from nothing to APEX than from Forms to APEX, especially if he has done complex things with Forms ! |
| 08:42:37 | Mr. X | @hoffmannf: is FORM 6 to Apex migration is smooth? and can someone share Video Tutotial for migration of FORM To APEX? |
| 08:42:54 | * David Peake | @hoffmannf - There are always options, including staying on Forms. We are presenting one of the best alternatives for those who want to move away from Oracle Forms. We are *definitely* not saying you must move away from Forms |
| 08:42:55 | Vivek Ananda | @oegidio I agree, have migrate forms since inception of APEX . Change of mind set of the end use is the key. for the success of the implementation. |
| 08:42:58 | Juergen Schuster | @mentzel: Totally untrue you SQL - PL/SQL knowledge can’t be learned in 2 weeks ;-) |
| 08:43:51 | Scott Wesley | Agreed, we found changing culture of the users difficult |
| 08:43:53 | Kevin Z.(Chicago) | Which cities and geo in US are having more APEX usage? I lives in Chicago area and I feel APEX@Chicago is weaking ... |
| 08:44:31 | Juergen Schuster | @Kevin Z: Go to apex.world / Members / Map and find Meetups in your area |
| 08:44:35 | * David Peake | @Mr. X - There is no video that I’m aware of |
| 08:45:03 | oegidio | also is very important use the best practices, because to do a report interactive on table or query with millions rows, and want show all records under web page, is slow, but if you apply filters (years, or months) is more fast and the experience is better, dont forget is web not client/server |
| 08:45:26 | mentzel iudith | @Juergen, I DON'T speak about the database processing, but just about the tool itself, |
| 08:46:08 | hoffmannf | I have heard that a lot of frustrated APEX Customers went away to Formspider because they were frustated with several things. You can see arguments on the formsspider page. What do you think about this? |
| 08:46:17 | Juergen Schuster | @mentzel: Totally true, it’s hard to get the Forms people away from their Forms thinking :-) |
| 08:46:56 | Juergen Schuster | @oegidio: True, but you can change the IR to run fast with millions of records |
| 08:47:04 | * David Peake | @mentzel - This doc may help: https://docs.oracle.com/database/apex-18.1/AEMIG/understanding-Oracle-forms-modules.htm#AEMIG-GUID-5B18910F-0F3B-4833-A19B-A3D0FFBA61D2 |
| 08:47:14 | oegidio | For a big proccess, I always use a job and the process running in background, while I can monitor it, and dont block the web page. |
| 08:47:17 | aleksei.escobar | what is the best way for migrate a program unit from Form to Apex? |
| 08:47:26 | Scott Wesley | last time I checked, formspider comparison was well out of date, not considering UT |
| 08:48:04 | oegidio | is only a sample ;) |
| 08:48:44 | Pete K | I'd just like to say thanks to @David Peake for the useful links, saving them all for later perusal :-) |
| 08:49:21 | Sven Weller | @aleksei: move the program unit to the database as a packaged procedure, then you can use them with any GUI, but especially easily with apex |
| 08:49:26 | Juergen Schuster | @aleksei: IMO I wouldn’t search for any automated migration tool you end up with weird / old code you haven’t done yourself and the time to understand that and change it to your needs exceeds the time do the UI from scratch and leverage the whole current spectrum of APEX UI possiblities |
| 08:49:48 | oegidio | During many years I have seen many apps apex bad done, with problems since design database, and all that produced bad experience in users and companys |
| 08:50:05 | * David Peake | Best links = https://apex.oracle.com and http://apex.oracle.com/shortcuts (My links are directly to the APEX Migration Guide which has sections on Forms to APEX comparisons) |
| 08:51:12 | Juergen Schuster | @oegidio: True, same for pianos I heard a lot of terrible piano playing because it is easy to do the first steps. At the end it depends on the developer to make great applications. Thats true for any development environement :-) |
| 08:51:19 | Vincent Cheng | Is there a existing collection of the mapping list for the equivalent between Form vs. APEX? Primarily I mean the mapping for Form Trigger <=> APEX event and Form Built-In <=> APEX API ? |
| 08:51:34 | mentzel iudith | EXACTLY !!! |
| 08:51:40 | * David Peake | @oegidio - If you don’t have a good DB design then it lead to a bad app. I suggest using SQL Developer Data Modeler to design a better relational data model |
| 08:52:19 | * David Peake | @Vincent - Again this doc may help: https://docs.oracle.com/database/apex-18.1/AEMIG/understanding-Oracle-forms-modules.htm#AEMIG-GUID-5B18910F-0F3B-4833-A19B-A3D0FFBA61D2 |
| 08:52:31 | Sk | Can you please share view on Application security oracle Apex vs forms |
| 08:52:34 | oegidio | Is very important build a team with html, JScript, Java programmers for to complete roles with your knowledge of forms, plsql. |
| 08:52:50 | mentzel iudith | I am looking for a source, book, a.s.o. that is able to "teach the APEX mind" for people who are "Forms-minded". |
| 08:52:52 | Vincent Cheng | @David, thanks! |
| 08:53:08 | Scott Wesley | I find apex security really easy, from logical and infrastructur perspective. |
| 08:53:35 | Scott Wesley | Forms wasn't really baked in |
| 08:53:42 | Sunny Patel | Comparing Forms to APEX, is like comparing Apples to Oranges. They are different technologies - what is important is to understanding the differences and for me personally to grasp was stateless sessions. Forms has always been stateful. |
| 08:53:51 | Juergen Schuster | @Mentzel: That would be a hit, the question is, is a book enough :-) |
| 08:54:09 | Mr. X | When I import .xml file(FORM 9) in latest version of Apex(18.1), I am getting error that 'Page is not workgin |
| 08:54:11 | * David Peake | @sk - Are you talking about using DB users with Forms and other techniques with APEX? |
| 08:55:50 | Vivek Ananda | @Sunny Patle agreed, howver with a little effort and use of Apex Colleciton you can simulate satefull session functionality if the application requires it . you can m |
| 08:55:51 | * David Peake | @Mr. X - Please raise an SR with support so they can get more details and investigate further |
| 08:56:35 | Sk | @david as Apex is web based and how we can secure it in terms of url tampering |
| 08:56:38 | Sunny Patel | ...following on my last comment. I hear comments like APEX cannot do this or is difficult to do this - well it's not APEX, but any Web Application will face the issue. Be it APEX, .NET etc etc |
| 08:57:08 | mentzel iudith | @Juergen, a book can be enough, if it is written by people who understand deeply both technologies ... the APEX documentation is a very bad example ... I started to read it and you can gomon for tens and tens of pages, without understanding anything yet of the APEX workings ... except an (unjustified) statement of how easy it is if you know SQL and PL/SQL ... |
| 08:57:28 | hoffmannf | Do you have full keyboard control in APEX? |
| 08:57:45 | Scott Wesley | @sk session state protection comes out of the box, and can be page or item level |
| 08:58:01 | Juergen Schuster | @SK: There are security tools out there that helps you to fix EVERY security issue for Web Applications and specifically in APEX. Look for ApexSec or APEXSert. Search for "Security" tag in apex.world |
| 08:58:20 | * Anthony Rayner | @hoffmannf: Yes absolutely, please see: https://docs.oracle.com/database/apex-18.1/AEACC/accessing-oracle-application-express-using-a-keyboard.htm#HTMDB28702 |
| 08:58:27 | Juergen Schuster | @sk: There is also a great book out about APEX security from Scott Spendolini |
| 08:58:39 | charles | So, we are busy with an APEX migration project (from Oracle Forms). I agree that some kind of automated or scripted migration will result in a sub-optimal solution.... Anyway, so far so good... we are making great progress... faster than expected. The question i have is where one can find best practice documentation / blog / discussion / etc. so far I find Joel's blog to be invaluable https://joelkallman.blogspot.com/ |
| 08:58:42 | Sk | Thanks |
| 08:59:30 | Juergen Schuster | @charles: apex.world |
| 09:00:12 | * Anthony Rayner | @hoffmannf: Also the VPAT will detail any current known issues: https://www.oracle.com/corporate/accessibility/templates/t2-7735.html |
| 09:00:26 | charles | quick question ... you mention about forms being unbeatable for back office high volume data processing... but ... whilst i agree with you to some extent the problem is this .... we are in an era of CLOUD migration and forms is just to chatty such that in an environment with latency above zero it becomes problematic |
| 09:00:42 | * David Peake | http://apex.world is an excellent community site built by the community for the community, thanks to @Juergen and others |
| 09:01:15 | Sven Weller | All of the developers I have, that were used to Forms are now doing Apex and they love it. ... ok 1 is now doing Java and he hates it.... |
| 09:01:25 | hoffmannf | I have to go - thank you for all the answers .. |
| 09:01:42 | * Anthony Rayner | @hoffmannf: Thank you for the questions! :-) |
| 09:01:49 | oegidio | I agree |
| 09:02:15 | * David Peake | @charles - An alternative is to look at the business process and see if you can change from data entry operators entering all of the data to end users entering their own data |
| 09:02:19 | mentzel iudith | @Sven, you should disclose how did they learn APEX, so that to love it ? The documentation is discouraging ... |
| 09:03:08 | Sven Weller | Usually they did some internal project first |
| 09:03:20 | Juergen Schuster | @mentzel: There are a lot of good and free APEX trainings out there. check apex.world |
| 09:03:46 | Pete K | I reckon it took a couple of weeks to get used to the APEX interface (5) over developing in forms. Depends how much time you have to work with it of course. Still learning every day though, two years later. |
| 09:03:52 | charles | @David, the challenge is with for example a claims assessor who capture claims and assess/adjudicate them - they are fast ... in forms and process upwards of 500 claims a day |
| 09:04:15 | * David Peake | For free training from Oracle go to https://apex.oracle.com/hols |
| 09:04:45 | Sven Weller | 42 min is a lie. There is also a difference between being able to use the tool (=able to become productive) and understand and use the tool in a proper way (=2 years for any progamming language). |
| 09:04:47 | David Burela | @Dario , @Sergei and Simon: What challenges did you have with devs and users when migrating from Forms to APEX? Beyond the tech subjects |
| 09:05:24 | oegidio | Is amazing all that you can to do with apex, pluggins, rest, ords, JScript, Actions Dynamic and plsql on Oracle database. I Love it |
| 09:05:55 | * David Peake | @charles - Agreed! That is why we say that for certain use cases Forms is the best solution |
| 09:06:04 | charles | time to competence on APEX from forms... not more than a few weeks (my personal experience over last few weeks :) ) ... i'm loving it and it's fast. But we are taking our time to plan carefully so when we bring the full dev team on board we have defined our approaches or rules and namning standards, design patterns , etc. |
| 09:06:07 | Juergen Schuster | I did a lot of trainings. In general people get productive after 6 weeks. Best have coaching available after that. |
| 09:06:07 | David Burela | I extend the question to the other participants |
| 09:06:34 | mentzel iudith | I would be happy to learn it in 2 years :) I developed my Forms skills more than 20 years and was still able to add "new skills" (and tricks avan after such a long time :) |
| 09:07:02 | Tim St. Hilaire | I Agree with Francis - Solve the Identity Management problem first. |
| 09:07:16 | Juergen Schuster | @David Burela: It’s the old Forms Developer mindset they don’t want to leave it and do everything the same in APEX. This will never work ;-) |
| 09:07:18 | * David Peake | @charles - Good strategy |
| 09:07:21 | Pete K | @david, users loved it. Old school forms developers crossed themselves and waved garlic around. People come round eventually when they realise how flippin fast it is to develop with. |
| 09:07:33 | charles | @David, thing is we are migrating our solution to cloud - private cloud initially then oracle cloud... so the latency thing with forms is challenging ... anything over say 30ms becomes problematic |
| 09:07:42 | Vincent Cheng | @Charles, would you please share the insight for the progress of your migration project ? We are also doing the survey to do this |
| 09:07:59 | Scott Wesley | I think the forms mindset comes through when you see the design of a set of APEX pages |
| 09:08:06 | Scott Wesley | done by an ex-forms developer |
| 09:08:49 | Scott Wesley | When I started learning APEX, I found substition variable syntax a little tricky to understand, plus the whole session state thing. |
| 09:09:15 | Pete K | @Scott. Ditto! Seems obvious now though! |
| 09:09:22 | mentzel iudith | @Scott you are right, I am exactly looking for such a guided example, taking a (complex) form and demonstrate how NOT to do similar things in APEX ! |
| 09:10:06 | Scott Wesley | yeah, web pages just behave differently, and that's a big change |
| 09:10:14 | charles | @Vincent - sure ... I've been forms developer since the 90's ... played a bit on apex before but working properly on the migration now. starting with the tricky bits.. migrating our access control, document management, workflow engine, etc. first . also doing some new functionality in APEX only and some parallel since we have some customers which will adopt quicker than others so we will need to maintain both for a while |
| 09:10:23 | Sven Weller | Forms developers usually have strong database skills. Those skills are so highly useful in Apex, that they can reuse most of those. But I also have seen former PhP developers with a lot of css/javascript knowledge, pick up upon Apex quickly fast. |
| 09:10:51 | * David Peake | The single biggest mistake old Forms developers make is to try and replicate Forms look and feel and user experience. That is where getting an APEX specialist to help guide the UI / UX is of great value |
| 09:11:04 | Scott Wesley | +1 |
| 09:11:14 | Hector Ojeda | +1 |
| 09:11:33 | Christian Rokitta | +1 |
| 09:11:42 | Juergen Schuster | +1 |
| 09:11:43 | Pete K | +MAX_INT |
| 09:11:50 | Scott Wesley | using an interactive web page, driven by dynamic actions, you can deliver a better product. |
| 09:12:05 | mentzel iudith | Thanks, hope to see this topic discussed further :) |
| 09:12:51 | * David Peake | @Juergen - Can I suggest a new sub-topic on the Slack channel? |
| 09:12:56 | * Hilary Farrell | @KarenT Sorry you question got lost in the large volume of questions coming in on the topic - for the total on a pie, take a look at the JET Data Label Callback example - http://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/jet/jetCookbook.html?component=chart&demo=dataLabel - *dataContent.totalValue* in demo.js holds the total value for the pie, so you could incorporate that in a custom label on the pie |
| 09:13:02 | Glen Weaver | Anyone seen any white papers on Forms/Apex Integration? |
| 09:13:10 | Juergen Schuster | @David: Agree! |
| 09:13:11 | Sven Weller | For beginners I consider to forbid the use of dynamic actions. DAs are good and evil at the same time. They have a similar problem like forms triggers have. It is too easy to get into "trigger hell". |
| 09:13:25 | Scott Wesley | Roel Hartman has some content regarding Forms/APEX integration |
| 09:13:37 | Scott Wesley | That's a good point, Sven. |
| 09:14:10 | * David Peake | There is this presentation: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/developer-tools/apex/overview/apex-forms-migration-4041209.pptx |
| 09:14:27 | * David Peake | @Glen |
| 09:14:34 | Glen Weaver | Thanks! |
| 09:15:06 | Juergen Schuster | Slack Chanel: forms_migration is created :-) |
| 09:15:19 | Adrián Filomeni | As an Oracle professional that started with Forms 3, I can only say that the experience with APEX is incredible! You just need to stop thinking about continuing to think about how Forms solves things. Forms was created for client-server applications and today everything runs on the web. It is a paradigm shift that must begin with a change of mentality. |
| 09:15:23 | Igor Bursin | Thanks a lot! |
| 09:15:24 | * David Peake | Boom — APEX Community at work Thx @Juergen |
| 09:15:25 | Bernhard FW (DE) | great ! thxs to Joel, David and panel * * * * * |
| 09:15:32 | Hector Ojeda | thanks!! |